4184 United States District Court 21 Two Uniondale Avenue Uniondale, New York 11553 22 (516) 485-6558
23 Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript 24 produced by Computer-Assisted Transcription 25
HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4186
1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N
2
3 (The following takes place in the absence of the
4 jury.)
5 THE COURT: I see that Mr. Nelson and
6 Mr. Trabulus got here all right?
7 You were taken care of promptly?
8 MR. NELSON: Yes.
9 THE COURT: There has been a waiver by
10 Mr. Reffsin and Mr. Wallenstein; is that correct?
11 MR. GEDULDIG: Yes.
12 THE COURT: And you are representing Mr. Reffsin 13 today; is that correct, Mr. Geduldig?
14 MR. GEDULDIG: That's correct.
15 MR. NEVILLE: There are some people back there
16 who are having too much fun.
17 THE COURT: Since they are my people I better get
18 back there.
19 (Whereupon, the jury at this time entered the
20 courtroom.)
21 THE COURT: Good afternoon, members of the jury.
22 Please be seated.
23 Again my compliments. I timed it, 1:27, you were 24 all here, not 1:30, 1:27. 25 You may proceed.
HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4187
1
2 D E B R A B E N J A M I N ,
3 called as a witness, having been previously
4 duly sworn, was examined and testified as
5 follows:
6
7 REDIRECT EXAMINATION (cont'd)
8 BY MR. WHITE:
9 Q Now, Ms. Benjamin, do you
recall yesterday you were
10 asked questions by Mr. Nelson about the four levels of
11 review of customer's qualifications?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Now, I want to go over with you those levels of
14 review.
15 The first one that Mr. Nelson talked about was
16 the selection of the mailing lists themselves; do you
17 remember that?
18 A That's right.
19 Q And you were deeply involved in that; is that
20 correct?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Now, you also said yesterday in response to a
23 question from Mr. Trabulus, that except for unusual -- let 24 me rephrase the question. 25 Except in certain infrequent occasions, the
HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4188 Benjamin-redirect/White
1 actual tapes that had the names on the mailing list were
2 not usually at the Who's Who offices; is that right?
3 A That's rig
ht.
4 Q And they would go from the mailing list broker to the
5 mailing house; is that correct?
6 A That is correct.
7 Q Now, at the time that you were selecting the lists,
8 did you know even a single name on that list?
9 A Do you mean have knowledge of it? No.
10 Q So, if you bought a list of 50,000 names, how many of
11 those individual person's names would you know?
12 A None in advance.
13 Q And when you selected a list, would you know whether
14 any person whose name was on that list had any career
15 achievements?
16 A In some cases yes, and in some cases no.
17 Q Okay.
18 Tell us the cases where you would know the career
19 achievements?
20 A Well, when you segmented a list -- by segment, it is
21 broken down into different portions -- there were lists
22 selectable by title.
23 Q Now, aside from the title, just the person's
title, 24 would you know any other career achievements that they 25 had?
HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4189 Benjamin-redirect/White
1 A No.
2 Q Now, do you recall yesterday we looked at a list that
3 was purchased or rented of American Bar Association
4 members; do you remember that?
5 A That's correct.
6 Q Using that as an example, when you rented the ABA
7 list, would you know how long a member on that -- a person
8 on that list had been an attorney?
9 A No.
10 Q Would you know if they had just passed the bar?
11 A No.
12 Q Would you know if they were new in practice or were a
13 federal judge?
14 A No.
15 Q Would you know if they were respected by their peers?
16 A No.
17 Q Would you know if they ever won any case?
18 A No.
19 Q Would you know if they ever che
ated their clients?
20 A No.
21 Q Is that correct, the one fact you would know, and the
22 one fact only, is that they belong to the ABA?
23 A That's correct. 24 Q Now, you recall we also looked at mailing list rental 25 invoices that related to magazines; is that right?
HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4190 Benjamin-redirect/White
1 A That's correct.
2 Q And in that case would you know anything about the
3 job of the person other than perhaps the title?
4 A No.
5 Q Do you know their age?
6 A No.
7 Q Would you know their education?
8 A No.
9 Q Again, you would know one fact and only one fact
10 only, the fact that they subscribed to that magazine; is
11 that right?
12 A That's right.
13 Q Now, let's talk about the second level of screening
14 that Mr. Nelson asked you about.
What he identified as
15 the second level of screening is when the cards were
16 returned and they were sorted by members of the
17 administrative department; is that right?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q Now, who did this in administration?
20 A Well, people that worked under Liz Sautter.
21 Q And are those the people you referred to earlier as
22 the data entry girls?
23 A Yes. 24 Q And where did they do this? 25 A In the conference room.
HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4191 Benjamin-redirect/White
1 Q You said in response to Mr. Schoer's questions, that
2 they did this behind closed doors, right?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And after they finished sorting it, what did they do
5 with it?
6 A From my recollection they were put into decks of
7 cards and then were turned over to Liz. They were counted
8
and sorted.
9 Q And Liz put them in the administrative office under
10 lock and key, right?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And you weren't in the conference room when they were
13 sorting them regularly, were you?
14 A No.
15 Q And in fact, you weren't usually there, were you?
16 A No, not usually.
17 Q Do you recall several days ago Judge Spatt asked you
18 how long you were there, how often you were there and you
19 said once every couple of weeks you would maybe stick your
20 head in; is that right?
21 A That's right.
22 Q Mr. Schoer asked you, that insofar as you knew those
23 girls simply perused them; is that right? 24 A That's right. 25 Q And you said in response to Mr. Schoer's questions
HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4192 Benjamin-redirect/White
1 you don't know if they pulled out unqualified peopl
e, do
2 you?
3 A No, I don't know for a fact.
4 Q So that is the second level of review. Let's talk
5 about the third level of review that Mr. Nelson
6 mentioned. That's the salesperson and what they did with
7 the card in the sales departments.
8 Now, were you involved in the telemarketing and
9 sales end of the business?
10 A No.
11 Q Did you ever walk up and down the aisles where the
12 salespeople were, listening to them on a regular basis?
13 MR. TRABULUS: Objection to form.
14 THE COURT: Leading?
15 MR. TRABULUS: Yes, and the term is
16 contradictory, did you ever, and then on a regular basis.
17 MR. WHITE: I will take out the "ever".
18 THE COURT: That's good, Mr. Trabulus. I didn't
19 pick that up. Sustained.
20 Q Ms. Benjamin, did you on a regular basis walk up and
21 down the aisles listening to what the salespeople did?
22 A Not on a regular basis, no.
23 Q Now, do you know of personal knowledge as to whether 24 a salesperson ever disqualified someone -- let me not fall 25 into the same trap I fell into before.
HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4193 Benjamin-redirect/White
1 Do you know if on a regular basis salespeople
2 disqualified members because of their qualifications, of
3 your own personal knowledge?
4 MR. TRABULUS: Objection to form, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Overruled.
6 Q You can answer?
7 A I would like to just understand what you mean by
8 regular. I mean, there were sales people who went through
9 their decks and would eliminate cards.
10 Q Do you know of your own knowledge if they did that of
11 your own personal knowledge?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Now, did the sales people have a quota that they had
14 to
meet?
15 A That I wasn't a hundred percent sure of.
16 Q Well, did the salespeople work on commission?
17 A Yes.
18 Q So, the more salespeople made, the more money they
19 made, correct?
20 MR. JENKS: Objection, your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Overruled.
22 MR. GEDULDIG: I have an objection.
23 THE COURT: Since two have an objection, I will 24 listen now. Not that I didn't listen to you, Mr. Jenks, 25 of course.
HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4194 Benjamin-redirect/White
1 MR. GEDULDIG: Mr. White is asking a whole series
2 of questions regarding salespeople's job responsibilities,
3 and he is asking if she has knowledge of them having a
4 quota. That is precisely something she cannot answer.
5 MR. WHITE: Precisely my point, your Honor, they
6 went into this yesterday and she has no knowledge of
7
this.
8 MR. GEDULDIG: I didn't open any doors on behalf
9 of Ms. Haley. And I am objecting about Mr. White asking
10 Ms. Benjamin about job responsibilities of my client. I
11 didn't open any doors.
12 THE COURT: I don't know if you opened any doors
13 or not. I will let her answer the questions. If she
14 doesn't know, she will testify she doesn't know. She is
15 third in command of the operation, and I think she can
16 answer some of these questions. If she doesn't know, she
17 will say so.
18 MR. TRABULUS: I will object that it is beyond
19 the scope of the cross.
20 THE COURT: Not in my view. I think it is
21 precisely within the exact scope of the cross. Because I
22 recalled her being asked all these questions about certain
23 screening apparatus in place. 24 MR. TRABULUS: Yes. But not quotas and 25 commissions.
HARRY RAPAPOR
T, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER 4195 Benjamin-redirect/White
1 THE COURT: Well, that's part of the screening
2 apparatus.
3 MR. JENKS: I will ask you to instruct Mr. White
4 not to lead the witness. The last couple of questions
5 were leading in nature and they call for a one word
6 answer.
7 THE COURT: You are right. I have been letting
8 it go because I wanted to move it along. But you are
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The Who's Who Worldwide Registry websites are focused on the Who's Who Worldwide Registry tragedy, and the double scandal of government and judicial corruption in one of the most corrupted federal trials and all the many months of media silence regarding this astonishing story.
Sixteen weeks of oft-explosive testimony, yet not a word in any of 1200 news archives. This alone supports the claim that this was a shamefully corrupt federal trial; in fact, one of the most corrupted federal trials in our time.
Show your support for justice, for exoneration of the innocent, and for that all-important government accountability, by urgently contacting your Senator, the White House, and the U.S. Department of Justice.
The Who's Who Tragedy Thomas FX Dunn has got to count high on the list of "Worst Lawyers in America"
Most Corrupted Federal Trials - The Who's Who Tragedy
Who's Who Worldwide Registry and the Trials To Be Embarrased About
This site is concerned with the Who's Who Worldwide Registry tragedy, and the double scandal of government and judical corruption in one of the most corrupted federal trials and all the many months of media silence regarding this incredible story.
Sixteen weeks of oft-explosive testimony, yet not a word in any of 1200 news archives. This alone supports the claim that this was a shamefully corrupt federal trial; in fact, one of the most corrupted federal trials.
Show your support for justice, for exoneration of the innocent, and perhaps most importantly, government accountability, by urgently contacting your Senator, the White House, and the U.S. Department of Justice.
The Who's Who Tragedy How Thomas FX Dunn demonstrated himself to be the Scofulous Lawyer Of All Most Corrupted Federal Trials
Dirtiest Trials of the Most Recent Century - Justice Has Gone South
How rare it is to find a case that can offer not merely two or three, instead, more than a dozen major reasons for overturning that conviction. Here is a case studied by a respected federal judge for many months, who found that no crime had been committed, and dismissed the case.
Reed Elsevier, Ltd, as the single richest and most powerful publisher in more than one hundred countries around the world,
easily. empirically and truthfully described as one of the most corrupt corporations in all of human history,
perverted the foundations of American justice in the Who's Who Worldwide case with cash, power, and perqs.
Imagine a trial where not ten percent of the proceedings have ANY connection with most of the defendants.
That alone should require a separation of trial. In this case, NOT EVEN ONE PERCENT of the proceedings,
accusations, presented evidence, or accepted facts, had anything to do with the "sales" defendants.
The Who's Who Worldwide case was all about Bruce Gordon, his machinations and his accountant,
and the many companies operated in secrecy by Gordon and Liz Sauter, his true "henchman."
For days and days and weeks and weeks, all the discussion was about Gordon and his actions.
Prosecution witness after prosecution witness exculpated the sales defendants, yet,
this same judge who had previously dismissed the case after months of study,
was under one of the worst pressures any judge can be subjected to:
pressure from the federal court of appeals above him, who, in
New York's bailiwick, remains under the control of....
Reed Elsevier, the most powerful force today
in the American arena of jurisprudence.
This can be fixed by Presidential Pardon.
Call 202-456-1414 to lift your voice.
Most Corrupted Federal Trials Worst attorneys in America Thomas FX Dunn
